Vol. 4-Interview-Zahay

AV inter. FZ -2-

soap and you'd wrap this paper around this stick and then you'd smear the soap along the edge of it and that would hold it together

AV Was that really soap

FZ Yeh black soap, yellow soap, miner's soap we called it and then you took the powder you closed the end, one end was closed and first you would put in what they called a needle it was a piece of iron about maybe 7 ft. long that was tapered the end of it came right down to a point and the other end of it was maybe 3/8 or 1/8 inch and it tapered to a point you put that in first now you put your powder in and make a few of those powder bags you had time to put one in and then you'd tamper it see.

AV What did you tamp it with

FZ A regular tamper stick, you had to have it as long as the hole maybe, 7 or 8 ft and it was the size of the hole about inch and a quarter an inch and a half

AV How could you tamp it when you had that needle stuck in there

FZ Now wait and I'll explain that, you put the needle in and then you put your powder bags in and you tamp them and it would shape it to the powder around this needle and when you were done with the powder you put powder bags in and you did the same thing with the powder bags, see and the reason that that needle was tapered so you could pull it out you pulled the needle out and the hole was left and that's when the squibbs came in oh maybe they were about this long, I'd say about 6 inches long or maybe a little less and and powder in them like a paper tube at the one end, see and they were filled with powder and both ends were closed but the one end was kind of loose and sulphur on it and then you would light the sulphur and run away and when a spark would hit the powder this squibb would shoot into the hole and hit the bare powder and that's what would explode it it was called a squibb not many know about squibbs and there are very few old timers left them later on they had fuses

AV Now these squibbs let me see again, first you would put in the needle and then

AV inter. FZ -36/26/72 Tape 13

you would put in a dirt bag

FZ No powder bags, you'd make the bags, you know how a rollin' pin is, only these stakes they were a little smaller and you'd wrap the paper around that and then you'd put your soap on to hold it together and then you'd fill it with powder and you'd make as many of those that you would need

AV When would you make them in the mine or

FZ No in the mine, we used to have powder kegs we use to carry the powder down, kegs about this high about this round, 25 lb. kegs, black powder we used to get it 083 we used to make them in the mines

AV You tamped it in with a tamper, which was a pole or a hollow tube

FZ A wooden tamper, a pole, solid and after you got in all that you would want you would have to use a little judgment, you know, you wouldn't put too much in or not enough both ways would give you trouble, see

AV What kind of trouble

FZ Well if you put too much in you would smash the coal up too fine, too much shovelin' and if you didn't put enough in your hole, what we call the hole would stick well the powder would go off and it wouldn't do anything, you would either have to re-open that hole or drill another hole along side of it

AV And then after you would tamp it in you would put in-what kind of bags

FZ Dirt bags

AV How would you make those

FZ The same as the powder bags, the same way

AV Only fill them with dirt

FZ With dirt you know when you're done drilling you get dirt out of the hole well you could use that or any dirt in the mine just so it wasn't too coarse, you put them in the powder bags back of the powder or whatever you put in the hole, see and if you don't tamp them when the shot would go off it would fire just like out of a shot gun, just thru the hole, and that's the reason you tamp them

Av inter. Fz -4Tape 13 6/20/72

I don't know how to explain it to hold the explosion in there and it didn't have a chance to come out thru the hole expand in the hole and bust the coal that's the reason for the dirt bags. And then later on they used fuse was just like a clothes line(?) I guess you heard of a fuse that was just like a clothes line well you put that in at the first stick at the middle of the hole you put 6 sticks in, I'm talking about dynamite, now these are already made I think they're 8 inches some were an inch and some were 7/8 of an inch about 7/8 of an inch thick and 8 inches long that was dynamite and maybe you'd put 2 sticks in, in the hole in the ground, now you don't use a needle now, put 2 sticks in or 3 or whatever you wanted and then say you put 2 sticks in the first stick you would put a cap on the fuse

AV What did these caps look like where did they come from

FZ Oh they're copper about the size of a pencil and maybe an inch and a half long

AV Did you buy them from the supply shop

FZ Yeh and glycerin or something in them and you'd strip one of these at the end of the fuse and you'd crimp it, you'd crimp the end of it so it wouldn't come off the fuse, just the end of it not the end that the powder was in or it would go off just the end where there was no powder that's where you would crimp and you'd make a hole in the dynamite and you'd put your fuse in there make it the third stick you put that in after that with 3 or 4 more sticks you'd put them in after the stick with the cap and then you'd out your fuse just the length of the hole if it was a bad place to get away you'd have to time your fuse

AV How long did you make it

FZ I just don't remember any more a foot burns I don't remember any more it burns quite awhile well then you would have to judge where you wanted to go to get out of the way and then you'd slit the end of it in the middle of the fuse there's like a cord and there's powder in that and you'd light that and it would keep on creepin' towards the cap the flame would that's the idea of havin' that string

AV inter. FZ -5- Tape 13

Mr. Zahay has emphesema and as he talks the more out of breath he becomes and it is almost inaudible at times

in there I guess it kept burnin' it always kept the powder burnin' it just kept creepin' into the cap when it hit the cap it went off it

AV Where's the squibb you didn't have that

FZ No a squibb is dangerous

AV You didn't have too far to run with that squibb did you

FZ No you couldn't go too far but always before you lit it you, you know were going to go mining was a hard job a dangerous job

AV Yes I gathered

FZ Yes I worked with my father and worked with other miners and then the boss came after me I worked in the shop, a car repairman

AV Why did you change

FZ Tough and wet

AV Oh it was wet

FZ Very wet, it was wringing wet all your clothes

AV From the dampness

FZ No the droppers

AV Where did that water come from at the time

FZ Who Knows, it seeped thry the rock thru the coal

AV Where was this

FZ This was at #6 but then I mined in #6 too and I mined in #2 and then I got a job at contract mining it's just the same as piece work you got paid for timber, you got paid for props and they all had a price same thing with a car of coal well then whatever you made that was your that's what they called contract but then a got a job of contract man you worked with repair work. I worked for that for awhile and then I got a job pump repair and installation so I worked at that for about 3 years at Buck Mountain we had what we called a pump house

AV Oh yes what's that

AV inter. Frank Z -6Tape 13 6/20/72

FZ An opening about be about 3 ft. square and about 12 ft. high and we had 4 pumps up there but at first it was like a tunnel in went in about 30 ft. and about 3 ft. wide and after that was all done we installed the pumps after the pumps were installed we built a wall a 3 ft. thick wall and a door the door was about 10 inches thick and about 4 ft. square and when the water would get high it would close this door and the pump house was completely under water in order to get in or get out there was 160 steps from the pump house that was one level up to the first level that was the only way you could get in there and at the other part of the mine where the pump house was that was all under water, see, maybe 50 ft. of water

AV Why did they have it under water

FZ Why the pumps would run(????????) too or they wouldn't be of any use, sometimes the water would come in so fast that the pumps couldn't take care of the water that's the reason (??????????????) pump house

AV Where did the water come from

FZ Just like I said and in rainy weather mostly outside and it wouls come thru these cave-ins that was another thing that was a wet job, got called out any time of the night there were days that we had to work around the clock and you had to work because everybody depended on me and my helper if we didn't take care of the pumps they couldn't work

AV So what year did you start laboring with your father

FZ What year, maybe in '16, 1916 yeh, because in 1917 I went on the railroad

AV Then that was the next job, the railroad job, what did you do on the railroad

FZ Fireman

AV Which is what

FZ You stoke coal into the boiler, make steam that was a hard job that was the hardest I ever worked, I was very young then too all they called me down there was "boy" because I was young that was a hard job and we use to work from Jim