Vol. 4-Interview-Zahay

A. Veresano interviewing Frank Zahay -11- 8/21.72 Tape 27-2

AV So for the double homes there were 2 shantys?

FZ One shanty, a continuous shanty, they had no separate shantys they were all connected, just the same that Joe's over here see, just one shanty for both families.

AV On that single house that you bought, that had one of those in front too?

FZ A small one, about 12 x 12, there was a space about 8 ft. from the house.

AV Were there boardwalks between there?

FZ Yeh, boardwalk.

AV Did it have a roof over the boardwalk too?

FZ No, you mean between the house and the shanty, yes.

AV It wasn't enclosed though?

FZ No it was [blank space] and then later years people enclosed like the kitchen there, just a spite fence between me and my neighbor that's all.

AV But as far as you know the Shanty Street homes had their shantys in front of their house, they had a boardwalk with a roof over it to connect it?

FZ That's all.

AV See that was different from the rest, did they have any other kinds of outbuildings in the yard that was different from anybody else?

FZ No, the coal shed.

AV Near the back of the house?

FZ No it was near the street, near Shanty Street along one side of the street you know, it was - how would the coal mine[??] get to the lower [blank space] you know that's why they had to have to build it in front.

AV Then what else did they have, what other kinds of out-buildings?

FZ Just their outhouse and maybe a chicken coop or so.

AV Where was the chicken coop located for these people?

FZ Down near [blank space] out near the end of the yard, back end.

AV And that's the only kind of outbuildings that you remember?

FZ That's all anybody had most everybody has a garage or a shop of some kind but in those days they had no garages and very few people tinkered around in the middle of the night.

A. Versano interviewing Frank Zahay -12- 8/12/72 Tape 27-2

AV So they didn't have tool sheds, did they have like hog shelters or cow stables down on Shanty Street, if there were only 3 homes, do you remember any cow stables?

FZ Yes as long as you mentioned the cow stable I remember one family that lived in the second house a family by the name of [??????] and he had cows the boys used to peddle milk every morning before they went to school. I know quite a few people especially in the back street that had cows but but [????] lived in one house but who lived in the other on the other side I don't know, I don't remember.

AV Where was the cow stable located?

FZ Almost on the end of the yard, back part of the yard.

AV And that's where they had their hog shelters too, they had hogs down on Shanty Street?

FZ I don't know if they had any hogs or not I don't think so, not too many people had hogs in town, mostly chicken, geese and ducks.

AV Why didn't they have hogs?

FZ Oh I don't know, I guess the butcherin' part you know.

AV Was it expensive to keep them?

FZ No it was cheap to keep them in those days, its expensive to keep them now because you have to buy feed for them, in those days there was no refrigerators so there was a lot of waste, that's what you feed the hogs with a little chop, you know.

AV Why didn't they like to keep them for the chore of butchering?

FZ Yeh, becuase its not everybody that can butcher you know.

AV And they didn't have the skill to cut the thing apart?

FZ Yeh, to cut the meat up and after butcherin' there's a lot you can do you know, you can make sausage you can make scrapple, I know my mother and father they used to make about 5 different kinds of bologna, they had no waste at all, the only waste they had was when you cleaned the intestines and the squeal, that's all. They ate everything else, they made lard, they rendered their own lard, their bacon and then you had cracklins, you know what they are? you put them in mashed potatoes or when she baked bread you put them in the bread.

AV Cracklins, you render the lard and then you have that crisp stuff that's left over.

FZ Yeh, them pieces.

AV And scrapple did they preserve scrapple?

A. Veresano interviewing Frank Zahay -13- 8/21/72 Tape 27-2

FZ Scrapple keeps a long time when I moved in here before I had a refrigerator I had a big pot or something. I sat it down on the bare ground in the cellar, put your stuff in there and put a lid on and keep if for quite awhile, instead of refrigerators.

AV Wha't scrapple made of or what did they make it out of here?

FZ Buckwheat flour, and some cornmeal, that's all.

AV Well the way my mother used to make it is most of the bologna they used to boil it in a wash boiler, only you didn't boil the sausage they used to smoke the sausage and that would preserve it all the other stuff (names different kinds of bolognas and worsts) you used to boil, sometimes the casing would bust and some of the meat would get out of it, the meat that you had in the water that you'd boil your bologna in that's what they used for scrapple, mostly buckwheat flour. 378 (Tape was turned off)

AV Krafsberg?

FZ Krafsberg was the foreman.

AV Down at the carpenter shop?

FZ Yeh, he worked in the carpenter shop and on houses and the only thing I know is what he told me and he knew what his father told him.

AV And that was the saw mill, what about it?

FZ Well that the lumber that they cut was from the forest right from the Sonderdam and that is what most of the homes were built out of.

AV And that's where they made their shingles from?

FZ Yeh, I think so.

AV Do you remember if anybody mentioned that anytime that the saw mill was made of wood or stone or bricks?

FZ Oh no, well I remember the saw mill that Mr. McGinty had at Magruton and I imagine they were all built in that order in those days the saw mill [blank space] that's the cuttin' part but the power was steam power and they used the slabs to fire the boiler to make steam and the [blank space] like most of the saw mills they're not enclosed they're just supported and a gable roof and the sides are open all around.

AV That's it?

FZ Mr. McGinty finally had 2 and that's what they were make like.

AV So all these homes on Shanty Street were surrounded by a fence shaped like a picket fence with upright boards?

A. Veresano interviewing Frank Zahay - 14 - 8/21/72 Tape 27-2

FZ: Not the fence just the gate.

AV: The gate was made with picket fence?

FZ: Well I wouldn't say exactly like picket but upright boards.

AV: No spaces between them?

FZ: Oh yes, space between each board.

AV: That was the gate and the fence around the property here what did that look like, horizontal boards?

FZ: I don't remember that too much but after the fence because they were all over the town, that's this way.

AV: And between properties like that they had horizontal fences?

FZ: They had fences up and down.

AV: On the street, horizontal boards, and back there what kind of fences, and the end of the property here?

FZ: Up and down boards the same in the middle.

AV: I imagine in the back of the property they didn't have them as well built?

FZ: No mostly just to keep cows out.

AV: This is the back street home #1?

FZ: No. 1, yes, upstairs.

AV: And steps going up?

FZ: Yeh, just a hallway now here were the doors that went in and this is a door that goes in, you go up these emplty spaces this is a window and this is a door and anothere window and the front froom you walked right into it and it had 2 windows in front.

AV: These were double sashed windows right?

FZ: Yeh, all double sash, all but ths one this is half a sash (see notes for illist.) and the reason for that was oh from about here the ceiling came down to about here it's not a flat ceiling. Now there's something else, here's what I'm looking for.

AV: These are the 2 families?

FZ: Yeh, over here I run the overhere

AV: To show how it's sloped down?

FZ: Yeh.

A. Veresano interviewing Frank Zahay - 15 - 8/21/72 Tape 27-2

AV: What was the slope, it started to slope here and it ran from how many feet to how many feet, here it started to slope to a height to about how many feet do you know, not the ground but the floor?

FZ: I'm getting myself into something else, gee I don't know, I'd say the rooms were at least 6-1/2 feet from the floor to the ceiling.

AV: At the peak?

FZ: See this is the attic here right across here and that wasn't used.

AV: It was 6-1/2 from the ceiling to the floor and it started sloping here - began to slope to about how many feet off the ground?

FZ: You mean the floor in the room, oh to about 3 ft.

AV: These entrances are the main entrance to the house?

FZ: No, side entrances from the front of the room the main entrance came in this side here.

AV: Over the part where it slopes?

FZ: That's right.

AV: What direction was these doors facing in?

FZ: The whole hosue was east and west, no this is west and this is east and you know they're big rooms we call it the front room and that room was 16 x 18; 18ft. this was and 16ft across the front here.

AV: These were double homes - #1 was double homes?

FZ: Yeh double homes they were all double homes there were 6 of them in that block, double homes.

AV: Who was living with you or in the apartment next to you?

FZ: Well you see remember we were looking at names the other day and I said the names wer wrong, who gave you those names,Helen? Well you see Helen put down Rudolph the name was changed to Frank I took my fathers name and that's the only mistake she made, was the first name, but the names are rihr I thought she meant the house Rudy lived in see?

AV: Now these doors were these facing Back Street or not?

FZ: Yeh, facing Back Street.

AV: How far from the street was the whole house?

FZ: Well we had nice side walks down there, the side walks I'd say were about 6ft wide and then up to the street, oh I'd say about 12ft.