Federal Writers' Project Papers

FL-28

Jacksonville, Florida 28 East Bay Street Rev. W.C. Sale (White) Mrs. Lillian Steadman, writer Veronica E. Huss and Robert Edwards, revisers

REVEREND W.C. SALE

For 16 years the Reverend W.C. Sale has "been a well known figure in the religious life of Jacksonville. He was pastor of the Margaret Street Baptist church for l4 years, and now conducts the Jacksonville Citadel Mission at 28 East Bay Street, where he serves refreshments twice daily after the services to anyone attending, and coffee throughout the day. He also conducts WPA adult education classes in the Mission.

He is six feet tall, weighs I50 pounds, and is a slender muscular type. His high forehead is topped with thick dark brown hair sprinkled with gray. He wears glasses, and his heavy eyebrows shade clear blue eyes. Neatly attired, his tie, handkerchief and suit make a harmonious combination.

The Mission consists of one room on the second floor of an old commercial structure one block from the waterfront. The walls of the room are very dingy and so also is the furniture, although it is well arranged. A large one-gallon coffee pot of blue enamel shows signs of constant use. A piano, the most impressive piece of furniture in the room, shows little sign of wear. In this room, one frequently hears the creaking stairs in the old building.

"At present I am using one large room not only as a classroom and em-

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ployment agency but as a place where hungry men may come and eat; where tired men may sit and rest; and where troubled men may tell their needs.

"This is no church, no hotel lobby, nor is it a flop-house; it is a spot where men can feel free to come and find immediate aid. I am proud of the fact that help is instantly given with no prolonged investigation. This present location, which I recently acquired, is ideal because it is convenient to the greatest number who might seek aid. Being near the harbor and only a few blocks from the heart of the city, I am able to help men in all walks of life. I plan to redecorate the Mission and expect to be able to sectire a smaller adjoining room for use as a kitchen."

I explained the purpose of my interview, and he readily responded: "I will be glad to share whatever material of value I can furnish.

"I will tell you the story of my life in one sentence. I was born in Alabama, reared in Tennessee, an Oregon exile, a Virginian by adoption, a Kentuckian by permission, an overseas chaplain, and a Floridian by migration. But I have stayed, and not gone north in the summer; I have stuck or maybe I am stuck, perhaps both.

"My father and mother married shortly after the War between the States, and reared seven girls and three boys on a farm. All learned self-support, self-respect, and self-control. We owned our own home, and helped father pay for it. I made the last payment on it one year after his death in 1904. You know it is easier for thrifty parents to rear a large family than it is to rear a small one—that is, it used to be, and I believe it is yet. It should be the ambition of every young married couple to have 18 children.

"The Sales for several generations have pointed with pride to lawyers, doctors and preachers in their ranks. The pastor of the First Methodist

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church in this city back in 1893 was my father's first cousin of whom he often spoke with pride, and I understand that Rev. J.C. Sale was a good preacher. Many of his family still live in Florida today. Judge Sale lives in Bronson, Florida. My people came from the British Isles by way of Virginia, thence to the South and West. There are so few of us that we are willing to claim kin when we meet.

"I went through grammar school in Tennessee and later took five years in the Union University, Jackson, Tennessee, with special courses in oratory and theology, graduating in June, 1904." At this point Mr. Sale shows me the gold star he wears on his watch chain, the gift of the faculty for being an honor student.

"A few years later while pastor in Richmond, Va., I took two years of special work in Union Theological Seminary, an excellent Presbyterian school. That is unusual for a Baptist to attend a Seminary of another denomination, but I found it to be a good thing. It makes one broader, more considerate, and a better thinker. I seriously doubt that our present school system is turning out educated boys and girls. They all go through the mill and graduate. I do not see how they do it. But I presume education has heen so popularized that it has become a game and they play the thing through. Then they make a larger appeal to the eye by means of maps, charts, pictures, and demonstrations than they once did. I think I have heard that about 85 percent of what we learn comes through the eye.

"One must he ambitious, with high ideals, in order to make the grade in life. Much of this depends upon vision. 'Where there is no vision the people perish.' I made my response to the first awakening of conscience. I answered the call of God! To he a Christian! To be a minister! To live

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for others! I have had many experiences in what is known as the spiritfilled life.

"My ambition has never been to accumulate wealth. I like the good things of life, but have always expected them to come as a result of sacrificial services for others. I have understood that if one lives for others he need not fear; he will be cared for. But I have learned that one must be a good financier if he succeeds in life. One must keep the home fires burning if he is to entertain strangers. Certainly one must live within his income and not try to keep up with the crowd. One must either own a home or pay rent if he never owns a car. I have owned two cars that I bought and paid for and wore out. I am convinced that twothirds of the people driving cars do not need them, and would be better off without them. This is evidently true of people living in the city where transportation is easily accessible.

"When you speak of income you make me laugh. It is better to laugh, though, than to cry. Our first income in 1905 was $50 per month, and we lived in a furnished home. That was out in Heppner, Oregon, this side of the Cascade Range of mountains, 5,000 feet above sea level in the arid section of the West, where one feels most excellent, but where your dreams are a long time coming true. But if you go from the South to the Pacific Coast you must learn as quickly as possible to fit in.

"At one time my income was $4,000 per year, but like all the rest I had my reverses. The hardest pull financially of my life has been during my sojourn in Jacksonville. But I guess I am to blame. If I had hustled for a larger church it would have been different. But I am stronger because of my struggles. I would say that not less than $100 a month will provide adequately for a husband and wife today in Jacksonville. I know

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many live on less than that, but it is a hard pull.

"The supreme right of man is the right to live and the right to work, and the right to show the marks of a man. Nothing is more honorable than work. We should never he satisfied with our system in the social order, until it provides every eligible man with work. Capital and labor must cooperate, with this slogan, 'work for every man and every man at work.' I was taught to work, and have worked ever since. I do not work for the amount of money I receive but for the joy there is in it, for the good I may be able to do, for what I may be able to accomplish through the work.

"My mission work is soul-satisfying and gives me a complete feeling of effort well spent. When I lie down in my bed at night, perhaps a little weary from the physical strain of the day, I am able to find full compensation when I review the events of the day and know that tonight there are fewer discouraged, depressed and hungry men because of my work.

"The earnest desire of my life has been to relieve suffering humanity and to meet the needs of my brother-man. In this field I am able to reach the man furtherest down—the man that won't come to church is the hungry man, and the man made bitter because of some possible experience with a church-goer, and the man that can't make a decent appearance because of unemployment.

"Christ went after the man that was furtherest down and that is my aim, but the churches are not after that class today, they want a welldressed crowd on parade. I am not sure that you will find very much Christianity, of the primitive type, among the churches today. Christ was moved with compassion for the multitudes. I am wondering what Christ thinks of the churches of this age.

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"Getting back to my mission, for more than a hundred years Jacksonville has been merely a commercial city. But many things have converged to make it so. She has an ideal location on the historic St. Johns, with the best harbor, with the advantage of sea and land for transportation, undisturbed by storm and fog. Ours is the subtropical climate luring people from the North to the commerce of the South. We take off our hats to the past as we salute the men that planned and built our city, in spite of famine and fires, wars and fatal diseases. All praise to municipal ownerships of the waterworks, the electric light plant, certain docks, the stadium, radio, and many other projects that make for the financial success of our great city.

"Yes, we are happy to praise the police and fire departments, the park and sanitary departments, recreation department, great school system and our magnificent churches for their great cultural and spiritual program. But there is no provision for helping the man that is down on his luck. We have welfare agencies that are doing a great work but they must adhere to specified rule and follow-up investigations. That is why I prefer to continue this mission, for I am able to immediately aid the man that is detached—the man that really needs a friend.

"A mission is the only institution I know that reaches the man that is down in the most effectual way without embarrassing him.

"This is the only agency in the city that gives direct relief immediately; including medical aid and everything that one man may be able to do for another without charge. Everything is absolutely free, with no strings tied to it, except the promise to be a real man and try for self-support and self-control.

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"A mission enables one to work with his hands untied, and untrammeled, using his own best judgment, without interference on the part of outsiders. It is a simple problem—not complex.

"The great needs for such a mission are:

"First: it relieves suffering men out of work, that is no fault of their own in most cases. They are stranded and absolutely alone. They need a helping hand to find health, to find work, to find God, and to find their proper place in the social order.

"Second: so many people come to Florida, both tourist and transients, one with money and the other without. They both have the same purpose in that they are seeking 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.' The tourist looks out for himself. The transient must have some one help him on his way.

"Third: 'the poor are always with us' and there will always be room for this kind of work.

"Fourth: sudden relief is greatly needed for seamen in Jacksonville. Seamen are our second navy, our ambassadors of good will.

"All food is a contribution which I have promoted by contacting business heads and organizations. We generally have sufficient food for all.

"I feel that in this mission work I am able to stop crime at its source to a great extent. A hungry man will commit a crime quicker than a man that has three regular meals each day. We are told that hunger is the greatest human urge.

"I am convinced that the mission work has relieved the burden and gloom from many a lonely, helpless, struggling soul. This is evidently true with some men past 60. They say that cold harsh treatment makes men worse. And

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that is divinely true. Hear David saying, 'Thy gentleness hath made me great.' And Paul saying, 'The love of Christ constraineth me.' And the song writer saying, 'Love lifted me.'

"I am fully convinced that the ministry of this mission is surpassing the work of the prison farms and all that is connected with them. The new approach to the cure of crime is not punishment, hut mercy, kindness and instruction. We are called upon to he real builders in the Kingdom of God.

"The best advertisement that could come to this city is that even drifting men that come this way could go their way saying, 'Jacksonville has a heart of love.' That is exactly what 13,000,000 Negroes of America are saying ahout our city, who were represented here in their National Baptist Convention two years ago. That is what 8,000 white men are saying who have heen cared for in our Jacksonville city mission during the past twelve months.

"We have not only met their physical and spiritual need, hut during the past year we have taught the following topics: 'History of Florida,' 'History of the United States;' 'American War Myths;' 'The Power of the President;' 'Red Cross First Aid;' 'World Patriots;' 'The New Frontiers of Democracy;' 'Hygiene or How to Live;' 'Communism, Fascism, Dictatorship versus Democracy;' 'The Rights of Man;' which are the right to live, and the right to work and the right to show the marks of a man. We carried on an independent course of study without a book, on self-respect and selfcontrol. We are now studying the history of Jacksonville, featuring the thought of building a greater city.

"We have found, too, the study of human relationships is an inexhaus-

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tible course of which each and every man can take a part. We, also, very frequently have round table discussions of current events. Reflecting a moment I recall that 'How to Prevent War' was a most interesting topic. The forum plan of discourse and teaching is the "best that I have tried. This plan calls for the selection of a topic by the class, and the teacher giving the first short introductory address, giving all the class a chance to ask further questions and discuss the question in hand.

"I am interested in making every man's living conditions as good as we enjoy at home. The government is doing a remarkable thing for both white and colored on housing projects of Jacksonville.

"My wife is from one of the oldest families in Memphis, Tennessee, the Porter family. She attended Brownsville Female College, the Cincinnati Conservatory of Music, and studied dramatic art in several other colleges.

"We had three children, all of whom died in infancy. Later we adopted a girl, Rose Valley Rupard, whom we raised. She is now married, has three children, and lives in Virginia. My wife is an energetic person; she conducts classes in dramatic art, piano and voice; she has twenty pupils. I realize there is quite a contrast in our work; however, she feels that in her work she is aiding humanity also.

"I heartily approve the New Deal. Christ went after the man that was furtherest down and that is what the New Deal is meant to do. At present the political parties do not amount to much, they are nearly the same. Being a Democrat I stick to my party. I flew the track one time and voted for Hoover. It was due to Hoover's popularity as a World War humanitarian and food administrator. The liquor question was a great issue at that time. Some think that Al Smith being a Catholic had much to do with many

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voting for Hoover. It may have been with others hut not with me. I thought at one time that Hoover was the stronger of the two men, but to tell the truth, neither one was a giant. Personally, I think that the two Roosevelts are the strongest presidents that America has ever had.

"I have always voted religiously. I never fail to vote on every issue. I am a politician. I believe in the science of sound government. I always advise people to vote as they pray and pray as they vote. I have never discussed politics in the pulpit.

"Neither do I tear my shirt over an election. I allow political campaigns to he my time for fun. I am always for the present administration, until I go to the polls. As a rule the ticket I select wins. Just a few times have I voted on the wrong side. I do not wait to see which way the wind is blowing hut I am generally on the winning side. I find that one man is about as good as another, and all liable to make mistakes while they are in office.

"The word 'religion' is a hackneyed phrase. It has been over-worked. It is ambiguous. You cannot tell just what one has in mind when he speaks of his religion. It may mean his church creed, meaning denominationalism, I prefer the word Christianity, Christlikeness. As you know for one to have the mind of Christ has all to do with one's morals. Christianity doesn't hinder one from having a good time in life. Christ turned the water into wine at a marriage feast in Canaan of Galilee.

"I do not believe in trying to enforce what is known as Sabbath blue laws, where one is not allowed to buy a loaf of bread or make a purchase at a drug store. 'The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath,' said Christ to the critical, self-righteous Pharisees. I like a good pic-

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